Podcast: The Other Side Project

Nathan Dubrich, Head of Sales at Source Certain International participated in a detailed discussion about provenance, traceability, product authentication and digital product tracking in the Other Side Project podcast hosted by Ian Locke (Export Facilitator with the Tasmanian Fruit & Vegetable Export Facilitation Group).

Joining Nathan was Dr Stephen Cahoon from Sense-T, along with Gavin Ger from Laava.

  1. Dr Stephen Cahoon | Sense-T Stephen will lead the conversation about the work that he is doing with SenseT and their digital tracking of food provenance and supply chain traceability.

  2. Gavin Ger | Laava Laava is an Australian company bringing secure, scannable, product authentication technology to the market. We are helping to foil global counterfeit activity and connecting brands and consumers directly through trusted and authentic product experiences. Gavin will discuss the opportunities of how his business sector products and services link into digital tracking.

  3. Nathan Dubrich | Source Certain International Recognised global leaders in supply chain integrity and provenance science SCI supply chain traceability and verification services, enable our clients to robustly and independently trace products at any point in the supply chain. Nathan will discuss the opportunities of how his business sector products and services link into digital tracking.

Listen to the audio below and view all The Other Side podcasts and supporting materials here. A transcription of the audio is offered below.

*NOTE* Dr Stephen Cahoon's segment was inaudible due to internet problems and unfortunately had to be edited out for this version.

Transcription of audio:

Ian Locke

I'd like to start with an acknowledgement of traditional peoples, I'd like to knowledge traditional custodians of the lands on which we are meeting, I pay respect to the elders past, present and emerging. I extend that respect to other Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people present today. The Tasmanian Fruit and Vegetable Export Facilitation Group honours the traditional custodians of countries for Australia. We acknowledge their continuing mission to the land, water, sky and community with gratitude that we share these lands, waters and skies and communities today as sorrow for the cost of sharing and hoping we can move to a place of equity, justice and partnership together.

We have a great agenda today and before we start my main points, the meeting is open to purposes of recording and maybe Media Presence. Could I ask you make sure that you put your microphones on mute. That avoids me having to mute everyone. Presenters will discuss matters that do not impinge on their commercial confidences and questions may be declined due to them being sensitive. Please put yourself up to mute background distractions. And I just emphasise that tomorrow this webinar will be on our site. It'll be noted as webinar number 12. And of course the other previous 11 webinars.

With today one of the constant themes throughout our webinars has been digitalization. At first it was a strong objective that has become a common thread - to pursue digitalisation options and opportunities, interactive digital platforms from source to supermarket; irrespective of where the journey starts and where the journey ends. You will be aware the we - Bec McLellan and I - have produced an introductory booklet “Food Transparency – Tracing, Tracking & Provenance” which is now into its second version and is available on our website.

We have three excellent speakers – and I suspect – they have evolved since the pandemic was declared in March and when THE OTHER SIDE project came into being in April. Almost 9-months of turbulence, upheaval, health and economic crises, freight challenges and the list go on for producers, packers, suppliers and exporters. Everyone in the supply and value chain from source to supermarket. As a freebie Today, I'd like to quote from a recent survey released last week.

“A survey released by Emerson’s Commercial & Residential Solutions business, shows that consumers have dramatically altered their shopping habits in response to Covid-19, putting pressure on retailers to adapt to changing consumption patterns. “More than 8 out of 10 (81%) of respondents said they’re paying close attention to whether food is kept at safe temperatures all throughout the supply chain during transportation and storage.“

This strong focus underscores a critical need for retailers, supermarkets and suppliers to design and invest in technology, processes and cold chain infrastructure that help ensure freshness and safety of food to meet consumers’ expectations.” So with today's presentation, we're gonna be talking about digitalization supply chain traceability and IoT or the Internet of Things. It's going to be a great session led by Dr. Stephen Cahoon from Sense-T along with Gavin Ger from Laava and Nathan Dubrich from Source Certain and we're going to get the session on a few minutes earlier because I know that some of these speakers may try to get over time and also questions. So with the first session the topic is whether Australia or across the globe in particularly, is the consumer key? Stephen will lead the conversation about the work that he's doing at SenseT. And their digital tracking of food provenance and supply chain traceability. So, you're ready, go Stephen?

So he's probably running late. I'd like to wait for Stephen to start off because there's a sequence to the presentation this afternoon. But we were just talking before that it's amazing how quickly this question of digitalization and supply chain traceability, and other activities around these interactive platforms has gained a real level of interest since the beginning of this year. And I believe what we'll learn from today is perhaps a couple of issues that I'd like to see, you become more comfortable with, firstly, that the way in which this is done with the various tests with the various platforms and the various providers, it's not a juggernaut, it's not out of control, it has become very much more simpler, and much more accessible, you don't have to be a multimillionaire million dollar sales to understand how this works, and also to access going forward in the future.

Now, I'm just waiting for Stephen to come on, but he's just running a bit late. This happens with the way it goes sometimes. So you're gonna have to bear with me, I'm ad libbing at the moment, until Stephen comes on. And I'd like you also to remember that there is a chat button on the right hand side down the bottom. And we're doing the best to get rid of all the all the background noise. So if you still have your button, unmuted, I think we're all back on mute apart from myself. And that's probably the one you want to get. I couldn't agree more. So, as I was saying that this is going to be our last webinar for for this year. And they've been very well attended and followed up in very pleased with the response from from industry and the people have used it very much. Just like to remind you that I had been in touch with some of you and asked if you could fill out a very brief questionnaire, which is with regard to not just this particular activity of our business, but also have been delivering we will be could set up this morning. If you have a copy, could you please fill it in. If you'd like to make a contribution, please don't hesitate to contact me and I can send you a copy of the questionnaire. But it's pretty important that we can get some feedback from you all about how this year has gone what this group has done over the last 12 months or so. It seems as though Stephen has been delayed. And I'm wondering, Gavin, should we just cut to the chase and put you first and then follow on with Stephen afterwards? I'm not sure what the delay is.

Gavin Ger

Okay, terrific. All right. Awesome. Thanks. Thanks very much for having me. Thanks, saying. My name is Gavin Ger. I'm joint CEO and Commercial Director of Laava. Laava is an Australian founded startup. Now in its in second year commercially, we have invented the Laava Smart Fingerprint, which is a new, secure way of connecting consumers with each individual product, at the point of sale and beyond. And we'll show you a bit more about what these Smart Fingerprints look like. I know that there's quite a variety of experience in the room. But I thought some insights, certainly things that I've experienced on the regional export side might be handy to go through. So apologies, if I'm telling you what you know, already, but I thought some of these things could be new, some, some could be, you know, stuff that you've experienced before. And I'd love to hear your feedback as we go through that at the end of the session.

So I start with just a few observations from my time working in Asia and working with Laava in the authentication and consumer engagement space. And this is something that I think a lot of us, particularly fruit and vegetables would know – that markets are intrinsic to Asia. We you know, we will know the story, even recently about how how things have sort of come to develop around the product. But the reality is that they are a really effective way to move product through through parts of Asia, particularly in China. And it often the way that a lot of that brands will start but one of the consistent things that I've seen is that leading brands, particularly exporters are actually developing relationships directly outside of the market spaces, particularly for e-commerce channels, and for retailers and developing sophisticated distribution structures themselves outside of the markets, which is, which is obviously you know, the way to go ultimately, one of the things that obviously goes with markets is the risk involved in having your product, you moved in bulk through through these sorts of markets.

And there are many risks, including food safety, but also product authenticity. We've got lots of clients, we work with Laava, we've had products, basically packing boxes refilled, and product sale with different contents to what was in there originally. And that's something that we work with some of our key partners, including Nathan, who's on this call, as part of our programmes to deal with those risks. The second part, leading on from markets is, you know, retail opportunities.

China's got some incredibly sophisticated retail markets, but so does Vietnam so does Indonesian, so does Singapore. I think that I guess it struck me when I drove to the region is just how much choice there is on display, particularly in the metro centres in the first cities of China and in Singapore; the range is phenomenal. And we look we tend to think of Australia and product and particularly Tasmanian produce, as some, you know, the best in the world. But the reality is we are competing with New Zealand products, we are competing with South African, Chilean, we're competing with northern hemisphere countries, obviously depends on the time of year.

But you know, there's a lot, there's a lot of choice out there. And we do need to find ways to stand out. There a term here, which some of you may have come across before. And broadly, what it stands for is the idea of social commerce or group buying. And this can mean lots of different things. But there's a couple of examples here that I thought are noteworthy. One of them is that apartment block that's behind the inset picture there, that the estimates are that there's something in the order of 50,000 residents in that cluster of apartments. And one of the phenomenon that's really quite strong is group buying. So each of those apartments, sometimes several of them will actually have group buying leaders who will potentially even negotiate directly with with farmers or with distributors to get the best deals for their, for their residents.

And many of them will actually arrange for that product to be distributed directly into their fridges, or through a communal fridge system. So I think that's it's a highly efficient way to go. It's not just a China thing. It's actually all over Southeast Asia. But it's really impressive the way that it works. And the inset picture, I guess also just shows just how important is to understand the crossover lines between social media and e-commerce. This is a picture of one of our key partner's Reid Fruits will be known to many of you, their product on display in a product in a platform called Little Red Book. And we just discovered these images of our Laava smart fingerprint labels on the boxes last year when when we were first going live, and they were not aware and often are not aware of this stuff going on. And that creates both opportunity and also that needs to be managed.

The next point, I think most people will be aware that you know, unlike in Australia, you know, we value fruit, but in Asia in particular, and almost all the world, particularly Middle East and Asia is a is an honour gift. It's a gift that you give with honour, but it's also a precious item, particularly fruit berries, particularly regardless. And the key point about it really is that the perceptions of quality go well beyond the fruit. And they really start with the packaging, and sometimes inward as well.

And these are photos that I've in many cases taken myself except that the Reid shot but those of you who are familiar with Reid will know how much they've invested in their packaging over the years. It's not just, you know, the obvious ways that that packaging adds value, but inset in that photo that Reid Fruits boxes, again, that's part of a range of social media images we discovered last year, where a consumer has actually shown all the features of the Reid Fruit box that actually make it compelling and make it attractive. And also like this is how you know that it's the authentic one is basically what it's saying. And zeroing in on the Laava Smart Fingerprint that's been added to that box there. So I thought that would be you know, something that would be worth emphasising. It's not just the quality of the packaging, but it's the convenience of the packaging as well. So those small for example, orange packs produced by Venus are really really popular, particularly in Metro centres, all over Southeast Asia.

Consumers are really hungry for information at the point of sale. And there's some companies are doing extremely well. Zespri down the bottom right there, but those of you would would be aware markets, their products extremely well. That's actually one of the smaller merchandisers that I saw in Shanghai as following supermarket and that product they had done that was a self self serving sort of tasting module. You know, just incredibly well done, well done, but even the pork display above, that's actually Chinese pork and there's a significant amount of information going on about the conditions of rearing all it has gone into it as well. And that actually carries right through the packaging, which which I don't have a photo on this example, but you'll see more a similar. Another thing I've noticed was that, you know, good brands spend a lot to make sure that their product is well understood in market. And one of the key points here is not assuming that people even know how to how to eat your fruit.

So we were brought up in Australia, perhaps are more accustomed to eating pineapples, but it's not necessarily an obvious thing for everyone around the world. And I thought this label was particularly well done, and actually literally built into the label is instructions on how to cut and serve a pineapple. And that kind of quality attention to detail on the packaging really makes makes a difference. Zooming through it here, consumers condition to connected packaging. And this is probably the biggest fruit label anyone will ever see. It's a bit about a comedy sized fruit label. But jokes aside, if you see what's going on there. There's actually a lot they're building their brand really well. There's a data, GS1 data bar to be able to scan at the till. There's also a consumer engagement device in the form of a QR code. And that's an attractive label that is not shy and is actually you know, if you had two, two products side by side. That's the one that's going to catch your eye more. And so customers, particularly partners that we work with that are marketing into Asia, don't ask the question, how small can the label be? They often ask how big can it be? Because they really they realise that it's mobile media. Now, this is one I think we're all pretty aware of and it's not just restricted to China. It's throughout the region. And it's throughout the throughout the world, sadly, even here in Australia, but the simple truth is if it can be faked, it will.

And these are two examples here for you that the one on the left, some of you will be aware, Reid before switching over to Laava in 2018 had their a QR code based authentication solution hijacked on them effectively, counterfeiters just simply substituted Reid's QR code for their own look alike one, which created a fake authentication experience. And this isn't just a generic problem. I mean, this actually happened to me that bottle of artisan wine is I bought, I bought that I bought him a good supermarket in Shanghai. And I can assure you fake we actually found later on when we cross examine or when we really looked at the the layers of information on the label, we found that there were spelling mistakes, but the QR code that was on it gave me no information that I could rely on. And unfortunately, I was blind. And that's my guess my final point here is that you can't rely on QR codes if you're going to be using them in a security context. And that's why part of the reason we've invented Laava. There's another aspect to it here, which is the more layers the better. And this is something you'll hear me talk more about soon.

So that's why we invented the Laava Smart Fingerprint. And that's one there on the bottom left of the screen, with the little red kangaroo in the middle. A lot of Smart Fingerprints really are a completely different approach to securing product, creating a connected packaging experience for consumers. So for a start it's patented technology which we co-developed in partnership with the CSIRO and Data61. They are unique to each and every item. So every single box, for example of Reid Fruits cherries last season carried the unique Laava smart fingerprint, and they can be scanned with any smartphone that is now up to them to download. And you can see here that you're getting very clearly a message whether it's genuine or suspected counterfeit, based on some business rules that are underway.

Smart Fingerprints enabled you to connect directly with consumers, build brands, attract followers, and create any kind of experience including commercial experiences that you might want. The thing about the Laava technology over some other things in market is we designed it to scale to, you know, literally every item of production and to be really cost effective. It works with existing packaging. It can work with simple pre printed labels, or it can be integrated into packhouse software. And a digital printer can print it can print Laava Smart Fingerprints, there's no special tech needed. It also integrates with traceability, blockchain and forensic providers. So early on in our journey, Laava decided not to play directly in traceability, or the forensic provenance space as well as IoT.

Instead, we've actually cultivated a really fantastic network of specialists in those areas and you learn more about them on the next page here. So our range of partners is pretty extensive. As you can see, it includes marketing agencies, including a couple of Tasmanian specialists such as story and brand you'll see down the bottom. In the packaging space, we've got many leading packaging, including Aurora packaging and multicolor labels, but also specialists as well such as media and focus group. And then in the traceability, packing and DLT space, as I mentioned before, rather than inventing our own blockchain or traceability platform, we work with all the leading ones. So Fresh Supply Co. ,Trust Provenance, Escavox, and many others, Beef Ledger and so forth, plus and leading packing systems like Radfords and Pack Manager from GV.

And then in the forensic space, we work very closely with some leading providers such as Source Certain International, homegrown Australian technology that can really you'll hear from Nathan. I won't explain his capability but we're very proud partners to work with Nathan and his organisation but also many others that specialise in brand enforcement and, and forensic problems insurance as well. And then many industry partners that you'd be aware of already.

I guess I'll let you you've ever read these slides in your in your own time. But because the Laava technology works optically, you'll be able to see for yourself just what actually happens when a counterfeiter tries to counterfeit all copy a lot of Smart Fingerprint. Rather than try and stop them being able to copy the fingerprint altogether. We're rather focused on just making it extremely difficult to do at scale, and to make it to use business rules to protect your brands. We've also just recently completed some pilots with Mildura Food Company which included our first blockchain integration on half a million things, half a million cartons or tonnes, I should say our product throughout China both pre packs and cartons, and you can see some of those experiences there in your own time.

If you're currently a harps member, you'll bring your next certificate we'll actually feature a lot of Smart Fingerprint built into it for you or other providers you deal with to to verify your certificate. And then finally, I'll just mention that we've just started a fantastic collaboration with Brand Tasmania and State Growth looking at the idea of a Tasmanian trustmark.

This is actually at an early stage of development but shows a lot of promise ignore the certified that's which is a working concept for the time being but the idea being that particularly through these sorts of concepts you can not only do the traceability with things such as Escavox we can provide that traceability but also blockchain but also be able to then see related products. Tasmanian store, the Tasmanian Trade director tried to recreate should say, and then also book your state of Tasmania. So the tourism and tourism angle is incredibly important, as well as direct to consumer angle as well. And that's it. Thank you.

Ian Locke

Nathan Dubrich who is Head of Sales Australia for Source CertainInternational. They are recognised global leaders in supply chain integrity and provenance science. And they have a range of traceability and verification services that enable clients to robustly and independently trace products at any point in supply chain. So Nathan, thank you for being patient.

Nathan Dubrich

Thank you very much. I really appreciate it. Hopefully everyone can see my screen and can hear me fairly clearly. Good afternoon, everybody. As Ian said, on the Head of Sales for Source Certain International. It's a great privilege to be able to join this meeting, speak with everyone on call to share a bit about what we do, and how we work with others to support producers. Also why provenance verification is an integral part of the solution in maintaining that consumer trust, social licence and market access.

So at the moment, we've got traceability, we got food security, market access, and consumer trust, are all current challenges or themes that we're hearing that are affecting Australian producers. So right now being able to find new innovative solutions are becoming more important than ever before. Obviously, there's been some recent events both locally and abroad, that have potentially highlighted some of the limitations in those existing systems and the need to look to potentially do more than we're doing today. And that need to enhance traceability and be able to trace the product right back to source in order to protect against certain claims, market access and ensure sustainable and responsible production of food is maintained at all times.

Source Certain and our foundation is around integrity. And for us integrity matters. When we talking about the promises that have been made to consumers. And the information in which we're sharing right through the supply chain. So improving the transparency through the supply chain is what's going to deliver greater integrity behind what we are communicating. So whether that be ethically sourced, organic, sustainably sourced or other claims, there needs to be a means to be able to scientifically link a product to its source of production, in order to truly verify that it was produced or sourced in a particular way, and confirm that what the consumer is getting or buying is both genuine and authentic.

At Source Certain, we take very much a collaborative approach, which is why our solutions are designed in a way to very easily integrate with others, and where we're actively looking for complimentary service providers or technologies, for example, like Stephen and Gavin on the call today, where we can help to offer comprehensive industry solutions that can support or underpin existing standards, certification or data. So implementing that scientific provenance to support digital traceability systems or product authentication, is what's going to ensure the integrity of those provenance claims attached to your products when it enters the supply chain, and being able to bring that combination of solutions to truly track verified and scientifically prove those provenance based claims associated across Australian producers or industries.

Our technology goes back some 40 years ago now, when our existing Chief Scientist Dr John Watling pioneered the scientific method that enabled him to determine the provenance or origin across both the gold and diamond industries. Back then made to assists with various criminal investigations. And it was then able to partner with their current Managing Director Cameron Scadding. And together over the last sort of 20 years, they've been able to evolve a technology into very much a cost effective supply chain integrity solution that can be applied across pretty much most food or non food products.

So using our TSW trace technology, we're analysing that relationship between a product and its environment, identifying various trace elements, isotopes, or molecules to create a unique chemical fingerprint for both the product and its matching location of origin. The level of precision and the way we physically test the product at our own lab as some of the key points of difference. And by analysing the trace metals, they're absorbed by product to parts per million and parts per trillion, were able to determine the provenance of a product to a very specific level. So we're talking identifying two neighbouring orchards on the same farm, or even down to a caged egg shared next to a free range field.

Our technology itself has evolved and been extended extensively applied through forensic application over a number of years now, which now sees it as being both proven and legally established, as well as internationally accepted through the courts. We've also been fortunate to have worked with a number of the global law enforcement agencies, regulators, industry associations and businesses, we've been out of support them across various investigations for the likes of global food fraud, product, counterfeit, or other criminal activities.

Why provenance verification? So for us, we want to protect that link between the product and its origin, where we see the most valuable qualities existing. And that's things like production methods, environmental health, supporting certain standards or certifications, as well as promoting things like regional significance. So without provenance verification, sometimes it can be hard to trace a product all the way back to source. So therefore, that independent scientific provenance is what can support and ensure that accuracy and integrity at all times right back to farm or that specific source of origin. So obviously, a lot of times in our conversations, we hear provenance, traceability and chain of custody, spoken about as the same thing.

Although each of them play a very important role, independently around a broader transparency, solution conversation, it's really important that we have all three elements, so we can determine the origin of our products, we can track the product right through the supply chain, and we have a clear record of ownership right the way through, but all three of them need to be present and complement each other if we are going to get full transparency through that supply chain. Just a really quick example as well or in our ability to integrate and support, traceability or data through the supply chain. And our ability then be able to trace that product right back to origin to support and verify those informational claims associated with with products.

So for us, it really is about closing that gap or the loop between the the packhouse, the processor and back to farm origin by enhancing the capabilities of digital or paper based traceability to our ability to determine the provenance of a product to a specific farm not only verifies the integrity behind that labelling claim, but will also enhance the biosecurity measures for various industries. And what I mean by that is, if there is a food security issue or a food safety issue, we're able to identify very quickly the source of of that product, quarantine the location and where it's came from, and then allow the rest of the industry to continue to operate somewhat unaffected.

Since the development of technology, it's been broadly applied across a number of industries, through various B2B arrangements and other overt or covert investigations. And what this has allowed us to do is establish a number of sort of global databases, as well as a significant knowledge around some of the variations that have found across the industry or even across regions. On top of that, we've currently got whole of industry solutions in place for Australian Prawns, Australian Barramundi, and we underpin the Australian Pork traceability program. This allows us to protect the provenance integrity, and labelling claims for both prawns and barramundi, as well as scientifically verify or validate the sustainability claims in those sectors. It's around maintaining market access, and safeguarding the industry against any food safety issues that may arise.

For us, there's two key elements that underpin an integrity system. And that's traceability, and verification. So our programmes, are uniquely designed to build the verification capacity for both national state or industry level, and then allow each of those groups to leverage our Provenance Database to test and validate their own traceability systems, and progress from a digital based traceability to a product based verification. Just really quickly, and just through regards to our program, we structure those into two main stages, the first one being our foundational program, which is also called Source Connect. And this involves collecting reference samples from each of the known sources, or each of the known producers, and then creating that Provenance Database.

And then from there, we're then able to then leverage that foundational work, where we can then offer further support through the supply chain, or through in market verifications. And as an example, on the slide there, you can sort of just see, again, each of the stages of the supply chain that we can have an impact, and how we can then structure either that supply chain or in market surveillance work, to then ensure the integrity of the product is maintained right the way through from where it originated, right through to consumer. So a quick summary, our services really are all about building that greater consumer trust in the promises that truly matter. And that's around safety, environmentally sustainable, ethical, responsible production of food. And obviously, through that, that enhanced trust, we're having to drive greater demand for producers that can actually deliver on those promises. And therefore, in doing so, obviously, a lot of those social goals can also be achieved. Thank you very much, appreciate the opportunity to be able to talk through a bit about what we do, how we can work with others. And thanks again, and we look forward to any questions or feedback.

Ian Locke

Thanks. Thanks so much indeed, Nathan. If I could just follow up with your presentation, how quickly can Source Certain establish their programmes, and how does this support digital solutions?

Nathan Dubrich

Yeah, thanks and good question. So the two parts there, the first one in regards to establishing even just the foundational work that we do, can happen very quickly. For us, and really just the only real variable is around how quickly we can attain and source reference samples. Once we actually get them done. We actually received those samples. But you actually set up the foundational programme and immediate protective measures for producers within a space of really two or three days the most. And then on top of that, we can then help to pass then the producers can they communicate that there's an integrity program in place. And then if issues do arise, or we need to verify the source of origin, we can actually turn that around anywhere between 12 to 24 hours, which obviously is needed if there is a biosecurity issue or a food safety concern. In regards to the integration piece, and that Gavin touched on briefly, you know, we've formed a very strong strategic partnership over a number of months now. And for us, it's about that verification, validating the data or information is going to be communicated. So what it enables us to do is, we can conduct the analytical work, we can establish the database, we can supply that information to platforms like Laava, and Gavin, where we can then communicate with a greater assurity if you live with consumers, that not only can we trace the products, but we can then independently, scientifically verify that it has come from those claimed sources or that has been produced in the ways or methods in which which is what's being communicated through to consumers.

Ian Locke

Great, thanks, Nathan. I'd like to go to Gavin. If we use Laava with pre printed labels, how does the Laava system know what the batch pack dated variety details are? How does it actually work? Please?

Gavin Ger

Yeah, thanks. So I guess our goal with Laava is to try and make it easy as easy as possible to deploy into existing packing operations, packheads without changing any systems that you can obviously integrate it the systems and actually Hanson Orchards did that very successfully last year through runs custom software with pack manager. So it basically just the Laava Fingerprints were just cached and downloaded into the local packing system. And then as each one went on to the, to the existing packing label, it just wrote, the details of that batch grower, variety, etc, all to a file. But we had to come up with a way to do that, for printed labels and cartons. And that's pretty important, particularly because we've got partners like Opal now who are going to be embedding Laava Fingerprints directly into their boxes. And of course, you just can't then go and remark the boxes on the production line, which is just not feasible. So the way we do it is we just use it basically what we call a sequence number, sometimes tied to a batch number, these go pre printed on the labels or on the cartons. And what happens is, if that writer has, you know, some sort of system that they will use on the production line production process, all they need to do is record each of the start and the end number of the production batch for that day or for that shift, and we just get a file from them just a simple file that just has one of the batch characteristics. In fact, they can upload it now through our self service back end. Or for the most largest sort of houses that have actually got systems with interfaces, they can literally write directly into the Laava database. So that's technology we pioneered in Tasmania, and it's now working everywhere, which is great.

Ian Locke

Thank you, before I go to one of the participants, I hope that your your your sound is a lot better this time. But what are the potential concerns or inhibitors businesses have in adapting to IoT approaches to developing traceability projects? And what is your view on this particular question? Please?

Stephen Cahoon

I think there's a there's a number of issues there. One is that some of the some of the small businesses they've tried technology before, and it hasn't worked, or they've been sold packages that have been quite extensive, and they've got equipment lying around now they no longer need or, or they may want to add toward them and find out that it's very, very expensive to add on. So I think part of it is, is working around that. So one of the approaches we use, there's a bronze silver gold Platinum approach, where we indicate that look, you don't have to dive into the lake of IoT, but you can actually just put your finger in until you toe in and find out how it might work on a on a on a trial on a trial basis. Another issue is just that lack of understanding or appreciation of what all this new to all this new terminology in this technology in do, as I mentioned during the presentation, tend to focus a lot on what the technology is rather than what the technology can achieve. So I think that's a part of the story that we need to integrate. And I think the third part is, in terms of how can we integrate what we're doing better within the current business operations. It's very easy to walk in setup, unit change or what you do. But the easier that we can integrate him, I think the more adoption is likely to occur.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai